Kannada, Kannadiga, Kannadigaru, Karnataka,

Kannadigarella ondaagi Kannadavannu ulisona, kalisona and belesona

A Question Of Antiquity [with reference to CLASSICAL STATUS- Kannadigas to discuss]

A Question Of Antiquity

http://www.outlookindia.com/rantsmag.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kannada%20(F)&sid=1&pn=1

Daily Letters | 12 Mar, 2007 06:59:04PM (IST)
Whenever there is a problem particulalrly these kannadigas switch off the Tamil television channels. Ridiculous.But Unashamedly,these Kannadigas, watch the Kannada TV channels produced,telecast and owned by Tamilian.

The moment the issue is over ( not parmenantly)the TV channels are distributed again and the same Kannadigas watch the Tamil serials.

SWAMI
BENGALURU   INDIA


Daily Letters | 12 Mar, 2007 06:59:02PM (IST)
Whenever there is a problem particulalrly these kannadigas switch off the Tamil television channels. Ridiculous.But Unashamedly,these Kannadigas, watch the Kannada TV channels produced,telecast and owned by Tamilian.

The moment the issue is over ( not parmenantly)the TV channels are distributed again and the same Kannadigas watch the Tamil serials.

SWAMI
BENGALURU   INDIA


Daily Letters | 4 Dec, 2006 11:12:36AM (IST)
Kannada can never be delcared classical language for the following simple reason:
It doesnt have its own native word for even the basic words like “language”
Also it has no original word for “classical”
Hence it is a waste of time discussing about gnana peeth awards etc.. when even the foundation is shaking!
Where were these mouths who shout for classical status for Kannada and try to kill themselves by fasting to death if Kannada is not given the coveted status.. when Tamil was figthing for this status right from 1961?

AMAR VEDA
SOMERSET   UNITED STATES


Daily Letters | 9 Sep, 2006 08:50:04AM (IST)
Please delete my entries prepared at ’08:47:24AM’ and ’08:47:13AM’. Thanks for making my original comments appear

KANTHTST
BANGALORE   INDIA


Daily Letters | 9 Sep, 2006 08:47:24AM (IST)
Kannadigas get a few things clear:

1. Central ministers from TN, DMK etc. surely may have helped Tamil to get the status of classical language but not without proof or evidence can a language possibly be granted such status. Even prominent linguists, tamil and non-Tamil worldwide will agree on the special case with Tamil

2. For a language to be recognized classical it should not be a offshoot of some other language. All Indian languages barring Tamil evolved from Sanskrit and significantly owe to Sanskrit. Not so with Tamil. Go update your knowledge

3. Like prof. Hart says, when Greek was identified as one the oldest of all European languages no other language groups even prominent ones like English, German, Spanish etc. had a problem with just accepting a fact. Not so with India, if Tamil is declared a classical language others talk abt ‘equality’ and ‘respect for other languages’. A fact is a fact. Why do these kannadigas feel their ‘equality’ is lost if Tamil is declared a classical language, i don’t get it!

KANTHTST
BANGALORE   INDIA


Daily Letters | 8 Sep, 2006 11:56:23PM (IST)
Something that bothers me (and am sure other Tamilians) is the contant mention of the DMK / Central ministers / President from TN as being the reason for the classical language status of Tamil. Surely all that may have helped but remember there is enough evidence and proof that Tamil is an extremely old language going by the opinion of various Tamil and non-Tamil linguists worldwide. It was not an overnight decision or finding but was a long held idea. It is unfortunate it should recieve such criticism. As a Tamilian am disappointed at the lack of knowledge of others particularly Kannadigas abt the greatness and the classical qualities of the Tamil language and culture that become the backbone of the South Indian culture as it is rather commonly understand now

KANTHTST
BANGALORE   INDIA


Daily Letters | 8 Sep, 2006 11:17:07PM (IST)
Hey Kannadigas, when are you guys going to learn to talk maturely and correctly?. What is actually your problem in accepting facts that the world at large believes In? What’s with the anology of elephants and dogs? Who’s supposed to be the dogs here? Get a life of your own! Why do you need Tamil to get any attention at all? On your proposed/supposed way to success is a reference to Tamil really always necessary?. As if no research was done all these years on what were the classical languages, why suddenly it occurred to you that Kannada could be a classical language?. The single most important reason why Kannada possibly can’t be a classical language is because by definition a classical language is one that has evolved independent of any other language. Kannada evolved from Sanskrit, Tamil did not. Period. In your blissful ignorance, if you thought all Indian languages evolved from Sanskrit you got it all wrong. I don’t have very good opinion abt the much hyped abt 8 Gnana peeta winners in Kannada either, a number of them non-Kannadigas, one a Tamilian too (Masti, may I say one of the best ever Kannada writer?). If you are talking abt writing, don’t forget one of the greatest English language writer from India, RK Narayan who was a Tamilian too. K i went a little offtopic. Good luck to you ppl with your task. Just remember to not make a mention of Tamil in a degrading way when you are presenting your ‘theory’ that Kannada could probably be a classical language too

And to others who think two language groups are fighting for the classical language status, get this straight: Tamil does NOT have to “fight” for any status and has already been declared a classical language by many prominent linguists worldwide. Kannada is out here to have some fun in scene only it doesn’t know the end result is going to be even funnier. You guys in the “third category” don’t display your lack of knowledge and stupidity with innocent comments like “arrayed” on “opposite sides to lay claim to a classical status”. Talk abt Journalism at its most “intelligent” with no background knowledge on the topic and talking like a pro!

KANTHTST
BANGALORE   INDIA ________________________________

Daily Letters | 1 Sep, 2006 09:36:45PM (IST)
If tamillians got classical language, they should be happy, but why they are pulling kanndigas. It is like an example in kannada, if Elephants (kannadiga) walks on street, dogs will obviously bark. Elephants will ignore them. They know the status of them. Please mind your own business. We are bothered what you get or not. Its all politics, Central goverment is run by Congress supported by DMK, honorable president of india, who is from tamilnadu. So they took this chance to get classical status, otherwise goverment will fall at the center. this is logic tamil got “classical status” suddenly. Nobody should bother about languages, respect all of them equally. Donot unnecessary indulge us.

BROCK
CHENNAI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 23 Aug, 2006 09:46:41PM (IST)
Tamilians are like frogs, they think “pond” is everything, but kannada people are like sharks in big oceans, they have seen everything. They know, ocean is bigger than pond. Even the tamil frogs make noises, they do not shout, they just eat them up. Do not compare frogs(tamilians) with sharks (kannada people). If we bite u will be no where.

Rajinikanth

BROCK
CHENNAI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 23 Aug, 2006 09:34:33PM (IST)
tamil half water filled bottles, they show up lot, but kannada language are dated to 300 bc. The biggest district of tamilnadu dharmapuri and krishangiri districts, speak half telugu and kannada. If we take off that district tamil nadu we will be nowhere, mind it

BROCK
CHENNAI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 18 Apr, 2006 11:19:42AM (IST)
Even my mother tongue is kannada, I am proud of Tamil language which got the classical status among the languages in south india. For the people who claiming the classical status to Kannada, please go through the George Hart’s article of ‘Classical status to Tamil Language’

http://tamil.berkeley.e…milClassicalLgeLtr.html

SIVAKUMAR
CHENNAI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 7 Feb, 2006 04:51:09AM (IST)
Puliyai paarthu poonai soodu pottukondathu
(A cat tries to get the status of a tiger by jumping into the fire, hoping it will get the fiery stripes of its
rival!)
***************************************
********************************
The situation of Kannada vs Tamil is best explained by the above Tamil proverb!
To get classical status, Tamil scholars and poets had to fight for over 40 years with the Indian government, which was only interested in Sanskrit and Hindi for obvious reasons. They also declared a whole year as Sanskrit year, thought Sanskrit is only spoken by about 500 people in the whole country (incidentally it is spoken only in Karnataka, it tells me clearly that one of Kannada’s parents is Sanskrit)
It is not enough if a language is 1000 years old it becomes classical. It also should have quality and originality. For example, even though I am not a linguist, I know that only Tamil has the letter “zha” and hundreds of words using that letter. (Malayalam uses that letter but it is only a daughter of Tamizh)
In poetry the beginning words rhyme, the ending words also in some cases. We should be proud that Tamizh is the only language in the world which has such type of rhyming scheme. It is a shame that even after a foreigner, Dr.George Hart made it clear that of the modern, living Indian languages, Tamizh and Tamizh only can claim classical status, that Indian Government announced that it is classical.
Now the Kannadigas’ pride has been badly hurt, and although many of them were earlier telling that a living language can never be classical, now they say the Kannada should be made classical. This is hypocrisy.
Kannada can in no way stand before Tamil. Even with the existing literature, Tamil surpasses Kannada in quantity and quality. We do know that thousands of other Tamil literary works have been destroyed by nature, and others in the form of olaichuvadi is being destroyed by insects and cockroaches, thanks to the lack of funds by Indian government, because funds are used to preserve Hindi and Sanskrit!
Kannada no doubt is sweet and rich, but it can in no way compare with Tamil.
If Kannada is compared to the Moon, it derives its greatness only from Tamil, the Sun.
I happen to read arguments posed by some Kannada scholars in the site “totalkannada.com” and couldn’t stop laughing. One of them argues that “Palli” is a Kannada word. It is a know fact that Kannada derives many of its words from Tamil by replacing “pa” with “ha”. Hence palli is halli, peyar, is hesaru, pugai is hogai, paal is haal.

AMAR VEDA
SOMERSET   UNITED STATES


Daily Letters | 3 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
I think it is plain jealousy which has provoked these kannadigas intellectuals to respond like this. I don’t understand why request for making Kannada should be linked with Tamil’s status. This is petty politics.
It is a well known & proven fact that Tamil’s Sangam era coincided with start of christian era. Infact Tholkappiyam was written at this time, and the lore is that litreary work would precede grammatical books. So even if tamil is not the original parent language it is the oldest of all surviving dravidian languages. Let Kannadigas accept it as a reality and they have to live with it.

SHANKAR SUBRAMANIAN
WARSAW   POLAND


Daily Letters | 4 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Primary argument from the story appears to be that a classical language is one which no one speaks today or understands. So in the Indian context Arabic and Persian are accepted as classical languages in addition to Sanskrit but Tamil is not. Another argument used as a negative indicator is that the classical language candidate should have been used at some point in time by non-native speakers. Antiquity is not the argument at all for if that were the sole criterion, Kannada has better claims to classical status than Arabic.

None of this really disqualifies Tamil but a better case has to be made for Tamil by its proponents than has been made so far.

Hope this helps,

LAKSHMI SRINIVAS
NOVI   US

http://www.outlookindia.com/rantsmag.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kannada%20(F)&sid=1&pn=2

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Daily Letters | 5 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
There is a story of frogs in the well. When one frog wants to climb up, other frogs do not let it jump. So nobody escapes when water dries out. I think this is especially written about India. Karnataka acts the way Pakistan acts when it comes to TN. It is an accepted fact in world linguistics that Tamil is a classical language. The recent proclamation is just a political recognition. It doesnt have anything to do with the language. If Kannadigas feel Kannada is a classical language, they should come out with scientific, and linguistic arguments to support thier view. They should not behave like Pakistan which acts as a windmill around India’s neck. A great nuissance which is there to stay, but which doesnt have anything to compare with the greatness of the other…Pakistan to India, and Kannada to Tamil.

GOWRISHANKAR E S
LONDON   UK


Daily Letters | 6 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
The story seems to lack balance. It neither clarifies what makes a language classical nor does it present the case made for Tamil by its proponents.

LAKSHMI SRINIVAS
NOVI   US


Daily Letters | 6 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Sir
The article did seem to be somewhat incomplete, but it had so many things to say about most of we Indians. The comments to this article by Mr. SHANKAR SUBRAMANIAN and Mr. GOWRISHANKAR E S is itself a good testimony to the intolerance among Tamilians and this along with the sense of insecurity they suffer leads to such demands that often emanates from Tamilian politicians. Such pathetic assertion of identity and that too for political mileage happens in every culture and DMK being one of the legs in the PM’s Chair it is probably best time to make most of it.
As far as Kannadigas are concerned, we are one of the most tolerant and cosmopolitan people and there is no wrong in putting forward our views. The fact that out of seven Jnanapeetha Awards that Kannada has won, one has been won by a Tamilian and one by a Maharashtrian is an ample proof that tolerance could enrich ones own language and who is a FROG IN A WELL.

SUNIL N. RANGAIAH
NANJANGUD   INDIA


Daily Letters | 6 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Sir
The article did seem to be somewhat incomplete, but it had so many things to say about most of we Indians. The comments to this article by Mr. SHANKAR SUBRAMANIAN and Mr. GOWRISHANKAR E S is itself a good testimony to the intolerance among Tamilians and this along with the sense of insecurity they suffer leads to such demands that often emanates from Tamilian politicians. Such pathetic assertion of identity and that too for political mileage happens in every culture and now DMK being one of the legs in the PM’s Chair it is probably best time to make most of it.
As far as Kannadigas are concerned, we are one of the most tolerant and cosmopolitan people and there is no wrong in putting forward our views. The fact that out of seven Jnanapeetha Awards that Kannada has won, one has been won by a Tamilian and one by a Maharashtrian is an ample proof that tolerance could enrich ones own language and this clearly shows that “Kannadiga frogs are not in the well while the Tamilian frogs seem to be deep in the well”.

SUNIL N. RANGAIAH
NANJANGUD   INDIA


Daily Letters | 6 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
I think kannada should also be made a classical language.It meets the meets one important condition that it is extinct. I don’t think anybody outside India have heard of Kannada.That is my experience.

SANKA
LONDON   UNITED KINGDOM


Daily Letters | 7 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
part-I

vaNakkam,
I surely would support the claim of my kanndiga ethinc kinsmen if their language deserves the status of a classical langauge.
why not?
but u can not speak derisively of Tamil.

just read what Dr.George L. Hart,Professor of Tamil,Chair in Tamil Studies of UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY has said on the issue:

“pril 11, 2000.
Statement on the Status of Tamil as a Classical Language.
Professor Maraimalai has asked me to write regarding the position of Tamil as a classical language, and I am delighted to respond to his request.

I have been a Professor of Tamil at the University of California, Berkeley, since 1975 and am currently holder of the Tamil Chair at that institution. My degree, which I received in 1970, is in Sanskrit, from Harvard, and my first employment was as a Sanskrit professor at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, in 1969. Besides Tamil and Sanskrit, I know the classical languages of Latin and Greek and have read extensively in their literatures in the original. I am also well-acquainted with comparative linguistics and the literatures of modern Europe (I know Russian, German, and French and have read extensively in those languages) as well as the literatures of modern India, which, with the exception of Tamil and some Malayalam, I have read in translation. I have spent much time discussing Telugu literature and its tradition with V. Narayanarao, one of the greatest living Telugu scholars, and so I know that tradition especially well. As a long-standing member of a South Asian Studies department, I have also been exposed to the richness of both Hindi literature, and I have read in detail about Mahadevi Varma, Tulsi, and Kabir.

I have spent many years — most of my life (since 1963) — studying Sanskrit. I have read in the original all of Kalidasa, Magha, and parts of Bharavi and Sri Harsa. I have also read in the original the fifth book of the Rig Veda as well as many other sections, many of the Upanisads, most of the Mahabharata, the Kathasaritsagara, Adi Sankara’s works, and many other works in Sanskrit.

I say this not because I wish to show my erudition, but rather to establish my fitness for judging whether a literature is classical. Let me state unequivocally that, by any criteria one may choose, Tamil is one of the great classical literatures and traditions of the world.

The reasons for this are many; let me consider them one by one.

to contine in part-II

to continue in part-II.

PALANISAMY PADMANABHAN
POTHIAPAALAYAM   INDIA


Daily Letters | 7 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
part-II

First, Tamil is of considerable antiquity. It predates the literatures of other modern Indian languages by more than a thousand years. Its oldest work, the Tolkappiyam,, contains parts that, judging from the earliest Tamil inscriptions, date back to about 200 BCE. The greatest works of ancient Tamil, the Sangam anthologies and the Pattuppattu, date to the first two centuries of the current era. They are the first great secular body of poetry written in India, predating Kalidasa’s works by two hundred years.

Second, Tamil constitutes the only literary tradition indigenous to India that is not derived from Sanskrit. Indeed, its literature arose before the influence of Sanskrit in the South became strong and so is qualitatively different from anything we have in Sanskrit or other Indian languages. It has its own poetic theory, its own grammatical tradition, its own esthetics, and, above all, a large body of literature that is quite unique. It shows a sort of Indian sensibility that is quite different from anything in Sanskrit or other Indian languages, and it contains its own extremely rich and vast intellectual tradition.

Third, the quality of classical Tamil literature is such that it is fit to stand beside the great literatures of Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, Chinese, Persian and Arabic. The subtlety and profundity of its works, their varied scope (Tamil is the only premodern Indian literature to treat the subaltern extensively), and their universality qualify Tamil to stand as one of the great classical traditions and literatures of the world. Everyone knows the Tirukkural, one of the world’s greatest works on ethics; but this is merely one of a myriad of major and extremely varied works that comprise the Tamil classical tradition. There is not a facet of human existence that is not explored and illuminated by this great literature.

Finally, Tamil is one of the primary independent sources of modern Indian culture and tradition. I have written extensively on the influence of a Southern tradition on the Sanskrit poetic tradition. But equally important, the great sacred works of Tamil Hinduism, beginning with the Sangam Anthologies, have undergirded the development of modern Hinduism. Their ideas were taken into the Bhagavata Purana and other texts (in Telugu and Kannada as well as Sanskrit), whence they spread all over India. Tamil has its own works that are considered to be as sacred as the Vedas and that are recited alongside Vedic mantras in the great Vaisnava temples of South India (such as Tirupati). And just as Sanskrit is the source of the modern Indo-Aryan languages, classical Tamil is the source language of modern Tamil and Malayalam. As Sanskrit is the most conservative and least changed of the Indo-Aryan languages, Tamil is the most conservative of the Dravidian languages, the touchstone that linguists must consult to understand the nature and development of Dravidian.

In trying to discern why Tamil has not been recognized as a classical language, I can see only a political reason: there is a fear that if Tamil is selected as a classical language, other Indian languages may claim similar status. This is an unnecessary worry. I am well aware of the richness of the modern Indian languages — I know that they are among the most fecund and productive languages on earth, each having begotten a modern (and often medieval) literature that can stand with any of the major literatures of the world. Yet none of them is a classical language. Like English and the other modern languages of Europe (with the exception of Greek), they rose on preexisting traditions rather late and developed in the second millennium. The fact that Greek is universally recognized as a classical language in Europe does not lead the French or the English to claim classical status for their languages.

to continue to part-III

PALANISAMY PADMANABHAN
POTHIAPAALAYAM   INDIA

http://www.outlookindia.com/rantsmag.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kannada%20(F)&sid=1&pn=3

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Daily Letters | 7 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Part-III

To qualify as a classical tradition, a language must fit several criteria: it should be ancient, it should be an independent tradition that arose mostly on its own not as an offshoot of another tradition, and it must have a large and extremely rich body of ancient literature. Unlike the other modern languages of India, Tamil meets each of these requirements. It is extremely old (as old as Latin and older than Arabic); it arose as an entirely independent tradition, with almost no influence from Sanskrit or other languages; and its ancient literature is indescribably vast and rich.

It seems strange to me that I should have to write an essay such as this claiming that Tamil is a classical literature — it is akin to claiming that India is a great country or Hinduism is one of the world’s great religions. The status of Tamil as one of the great classical languages of the world is something that is patently obvious to anyone who knows the subject. To deny that Tamil is a classical language is to deny a vital and central part of the greatness and richness of Indian culture.

(Signed:)
George L. Hart
Professor of Tamil
Chair in Tamil Studies

PALANISAMY PADMANABHAN
POTHIAPAALAYAM   INDIA


Daily Letters | 7 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Mr. Sanka it is exactly your kind of species I referred to in my previous letter, you are the perfect frog in the well that refuses to see beyond its abyss. We can only be sorry for you.

SUNIL N. RANGAIAH
NANJANGUD   INDIA


Daily Letters | 7 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Mr. Sunil. Did you understand what I meant? I said
Tamil’s antiquity is beyond question. It is the oldest of all Dravidian languages. But my question is why should kannadiga chavunists link tamil’s status as a classical language to Kannada’s status. Why do you guys bother about this? You never answered this question.
Another accusation is that we are fanatics. NO, we are not. We are only a proud people and you folks are the linguistic chauvinists. We did not drive out other state people (even during the anti-hindi agitation) like you guys did during cauvery riots.

SHANKAR SUBRAMANIAN
WARSAW   POLAND


Daily Letters | 7 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Mr SUNIL N. RANGAIAH seems to fume at the reality. Please open your eyes and mind, dear friend. I am as glad as you are that 7 Jnanapeeta awards have been won by Kannada writers. It says a lot about Kannada’s versatility and the acumen of its writers. The problem is you want to think that your language will be accepted great only when others are considered inferior. That’s not really the case. As for chauvinism, insecurity, intolernace etc, Tamils are not the ones who are intolerant. They are not the chauvinists who block the erection of the statue of a poet who is a pride of India. If somebody wants to install a statue of Purandara dasa or Tagore or Iqbal in Madras, Tamils will not go mad as happens in Bangalore. Come on, learn to love your compatriots and try to embrace the diverse cultures in India and appreciate the merits of others. After all, anything that makes a part of India proud should make every Indian proud. My frog story has obviously touched ur conscience, and I am happy it has served its purpose. Be an Indian, and dont live within your closed doors. Give what is due to others, and you will get what is due to you. Vande Mataram.

GOWRISHANKAR E S
LONDON   UK


Daily Letters | 7 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
SUGATA SRINIVASARAJU is just another mischievous element in journalism. See what he/she(?) has to say: “Tamil and Kannada linguists array themselves on opposite sides to lay claim to a classical status. Is the battle pointless, given that both languages are derived?” Where did he/she find the two sides arraying themselves for a battle? There was no question of that until this person went around Bangalore for the express purpose of stirring up some problem. As if the literary intellectuals of both states are fighting with each other. NOBODY who knows what he/she speaks about doubts the classical status for Tamil. And nobody impartial would go writing a story without giving chance to the other side of the “array”. (There was a belated view from Madras though, after doing the damage).Outlook, of all the magazines should come out with such a rubbish………nauseating.

GOWRISHANKAR E S
LONDON   UK


Daily Letters | 8 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Instead of a healthy discussion; it is unfortunate that most resorted to use of language unsuitable for the situation. I would like to clarify that when I was mentioning of “Frogs” and “intolerance” I was only responding to the un-sophisticated and narrow opinion expressed by some of the readers and specifically Mr. Sanka’s comments were far from dignified and so were the comparison of Tamilians and Kannadigas to Frogs. It is not right to blame the author or the editor of this article/Magazine, the individual/s expressing their opinion on this article should have kept their language more cultured. As far as statues are concerned such issues are more related to Cauvery water politics than language. I still strongly believe that Kannadigas are more open, tolerant and cosmopolitan; one can ask any non-Kannadiga and non-Tamilian who has lived in both states for the proof. Branding of a language as Classical or not really shouldn’t make much difference to common Kannadigas and Tamilians, they should be worried about more serious issues that plague both of them as Indians.

SUNIL N. RANGAIAH
NANJANGUD   INDIA


Daily Letters | 8 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
I am surprised that Mr Sunil asserts that Kannadiga are more tolerant, open and cosmopolitan than Tamils. I wonder if he knows that Tamils have chosen a kannadiga as their chief minister, a kannadiga as a super star, a malayalee was their CM in the past, and that lakhs of Telugu people are living in TN like brothers. Can he say honestly that any Tamil can become a CM in his state? You are not even allowing Tamils to live in peace there. All Kanndigas are not chauvinists of course. But people like Vattal Nagaraj, ur present deputy CM, Deve Gowda, Nage Gowda, Rajkumar etc, etc are all fanatics who wouldn’t let common Kanndigas remain liberal. No other state in India has a flag of its own other than our great tricolor. And u say ur state people r not chauvinists. The fact that a Tamil and a Marathi have written in Kannada to win Jnanapeet Award shows how good those two non Kanndiga writers are. Please tell me a single Kannda writer who writes in Tamil or Bengali or Malayalam etc. During Cauvery riots, Tamils in Bangalore were killed, plundered, and raped as if they were from a different country. Tamils ran to TN as refugees in their own country. That of course is kannada tolerance. No kanndiga was even touched in TN during that cruel period. If some people want to erect a statue for Thiruvalluvar in Bangalore, where does Cauvery come into the picture there? Is Bangalore a different country out of India? Linguistic chauvinism is at its peak in Karnataka. Kannada is of course the second oldest living language in India.But why do u people always worrying about what comes to Tamil? This is a very sorry state of affairs. Cauvery problem has made u see every Tamil as ur enemy, Tamil language ur target. God save u people from burning in ur own fire of envy and chauvinism.

MD JOE VASANTH
BELFAST   UNITED KINGDOM

http://www.outlookindia.com/rantsmag.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kannada%20(F)&sid=1&pn=4

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Daily Letters | 8 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
dear sir,
iam a tamil by language and i read the article on language wars between tamil and kannada.iam extremely disgusted about the way in which your correspondent handled the matter.she went around collecting vengeance , hatred and jealousy.she should have also consulted some impartial linguists and scholars who are non-tamilians and non -kannadigas without any political motive.no doubt kannada is a beautiful language with very rich culture.it may be the softest among all indian languages for speaking.i came to bangalore just twice and i can read and write kannada with difficulty even before.(also malayalam and hindi).but i think comparing kannada with tamil is awkward.as far as tamil is concerned:
1.there is an old song(kongu ther vazhkai),probably from sangam literature.legend says that ,that song was sung by lord shiva himself.
2.tamil brahmi inscriptions have been recovered
in egypt.
3.tamil language and culture(mainly hindu)influenced the whole of southeast asian region.
4.in thailand,during the crowning of royal king,thevaram songs(tamil) are sung as a part of rituals.
5.malayalam language evolved from medivial tamil.before 300 years the language spoken in today’s kerala was called as ‘mala naattu tamil'(mountain country tamil).
6.tamil influenced sinhala language too.sinhala kings patronised tamil studies in the past though they disliked tamils and hinduism.
7.recently,some mud urns having skeletons were recovered from adichanallur site of south tamilnadu.the tamil brahmi inscriptions on the urns are dated as 8TH century B C.(so old).
so comparing kannada with tamil is meaningless.in tamilnadu,tamil scholars and politicians disparaged and belittled sanskrit to glorify tamil in the past.in karnataka tamil is disparaged and belittled to glorify kannada.in future, in some other state, someone will belittle kannada to glorify his language.
so comparisons should not be done in this manner regarding language,culture,cinema etc.
best wishes,
thanks a lot,
perian.

PERIAN
CHENNAI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 8 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
I still strongly believe that Kannadigas are more open, tolerant and cosmopolitan; one can ask any non-Kannadiga and non-Tamilian who has lived in both states for the proof.

I am a Telugu and I lived in Madras many years ago for about a year or so. I keep visiting the city now and then. I can attest to the fact that Tamil-speakers are warm, friendly and tolerant, if you also happen to speak Tamil.😉 In Bangalore, you can chat up a local in any of five languages: Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Hindi and English. The chap would attempt — even if he should struggle a bit — to respond to you in the SAME language. I recall an amazing incident from ten years ago when I first came to this city. In Basavanagudi area, a Kannadiga stronghold, I asked a gentleman for directions to an address. He simply walked with me a kilometer to show me the place! Alas, Bangalore is not what it used to be, the old courtesies are gone. It’s not the Tamilians who are to blame though: it’s the northies. They brought with them brashness, rudeness, consumering and show-off culture.

Sorry for digressing. Returning to the main point: just as we, as a secular country, accord equal recognition to all religions, so must we give equal importance to all languages. I’m for declaring all major languages spoken by Indians as “classical”.

RAGHU REDDY
BANGALORE   INDIA


Daily Letters | 9 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
I am honestly wondering was this discussion of worth at all, because every time I read the opinion to this article some people are spitting more venom against Kannadigas than before. With all due respect Mr. Joe Vasanth you are sitting in cold Belfast and you are saying that “Tamils in Bangalore were killed, plundered, and raped as if they were from a different country”, I wonder if you are really aware what is going on in India. Your statement sounds more like Pakistan’s accusations on India in Kashmir, far far far from reality. You are probably a victim of LTTE’s propaganda; you are definitely not reading any good Indian publications.
Through all my letters to this article I have never opposed giving a “classical” status to Tamil or any other language for that matter, my objections were only to the below-dignified comments made by some of the readers to the people of Karnataka. Btw – Ms. Jayalalitha is a Tamilian born in Karnataka, Mr. Rajinikanth is a Maharashtrian born in Karnataka, and I do admire the latter’s acting ability in some of his “old” movies and also former’s leadership skills. I would have even admired and respected DMK if they had used their “power” to do something more worthy to the life of common Tamil people. Lastly ; a request to everyone please stop using language that Mr. Joe Vasantha used in his letter. And thank you for Mr. Raghu Reddy for giving “third” party view.

SUNIL N. RANGAIAH
NANJANGUD   INDIA


Daily Letters | 9 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
dear sir,
i read the latest letter by sunil.even though iam a tamil,i have to accept the fact that kannada people are better in behaviour when compared to tamils.history may be a reason for tamilians rough behaviour.tamilnadu is the only state in india with maximum number of castes and communities as per population survey.this is due to invasions and intrusions in to the region in
the past 500 years, by people from other regions.many outsiders(from other parts of india) and colonial forces ruled the region in the past and tamil language and culture was given step motherly treatment.sanskrit was refered as devabasha and tamil ridiculed as neechabasha.after sangam age,tamil language lost its importance until the later part of 19th century.tamils paid a heavy price for the cosmopolitanism practised by outsiders.even after states reorganisation on language basis,madras state continued as madras state until DMK came to power.all these facts led to rise of chauvinistic ideologies and related forces in tamilnadu.

regarding tamil language,
1.as like major languages of the world,tamil has its own indigenous medicinal system called “sidha”.in this system,texts are in tamil language and songs were composed by 18 sidhars.this system is practised in tamilnadu and some parts of kerala and ceylon.
2.there is a martial art named ‘varma kalai’ in tamil.it is a warfare in which enemies are killed or paralysed by smashing particular nerves.it needs good training and attention.the related tamil text is said to contain verses giving all details about warfare.now it is said to be taught and practised secretly in some pockets of tamilnadu and kerala.
4.i heard from a history professor that there was a book in tamil about building different varieties of ships,boats and other naval vessels.that book became extinct somewhere in seventeenth century.in those days, tamil people were very good in sea journey.
3.kamasutra is the erotic literature in sanskrit.tamil has ‘kokkoha sasthiram’.i just heard ,didn’t read.
4.tamil texts were composed only in palm leaves unlike texts of other languages.so considerable part have been lost in course of time.what world see and feel today is little.
thanks a lot,
perian.

PERIAN
CHENNAI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 9 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Its a pity that Mr Rangaiah has once again made a desparate attempt to hide the pumpkin in the rice whice proves to be futile.Even if Rajni is a Marathi and Jayalalitha is not a kannadiga its still makes the Tamil prove themselves as a tolerent society when accepting them and MGR as their leaders/S.Star,which wont happen in Karnataka.Also its Mr Rangaiah and others (who were interviewed by the author of the article) who spat the venom over the Tamils unnecessarily.The Tamils never spoke of Kannada and only some shortsighted kannadigas started the mess out of sheer jealousy.If we claim our languages right,why is it pricking you?If you can prove your tongues ‘classicalness’ it will be recognised.Moreover parties like DMK merely represent the peoples view and (unlike someothers) we are not influenced by their views.I dont understand how LTTE comes here.Btw MR Rangaiah you can well go back to the past and read the neutral publications and understand how Tamilians suffered in Karnataka.Its a well known fact in the world including cold Belfast.Also sir,you didnt answer my querry regarding the the statue of Thiruvalluvar.I think my language is definitely appropriate while reading the standard of your comments.Thank you.

MD JOE VASANTH
BELFAST   UNITED KINGDOM


Daily Letters | 9 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Dear Mr.Sunil, the Cauvery riots are not out of fiction, but of facts. From your mails I can see that you are not a chauvinist. So I appeal to your reason and logic.

1.You are deriding Joe that he is mislead by LTTE. I understand that you know about LTTE. They are in Sri Lanka, and not in India. They have more than enough business in their own country to come here to “misguide” brainless Tamils in TN about Cauvery riots. Simply, they gain nothing from that.

2. Cauvery riots: The supreme court of India, (I hope you have respect to it, unlike your CMs and politicians)has recently given a verdict for the compensation and rehabilitaion of Cauvery riot victims. As you claim that Mr Joe does not read good Indian publications, and Cauvery riots are just a myth (akin to Pak claims on Kashmir), I wish to submit to your kind attention the following news from “The Hindu”(published from Madras) and the “Deccan Herald”(from Bangalore).

http://www.hindu.com/2004/03/10/stories/20 04031001721200.htm
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/mar10 2004/i3.asp

The clear facts are:
a. The Cauvery riots in April 1991 following the Interim award of Cauvery Tribunal did happen.
b. 16-25 Tamils were murdered in Karnataka.
c. 9,576 Tamils were victimised in Karnataka,and 93 Kannadigas were affected in TN. Note that 100 times!! more in Karnataka.
d. These are not our fiction, but observations by the Supreme Court of the Land. I wonder whether you will also deride it saying that the judges do not read good Indian publications and are misled by the LTTE…
e. I was very much in Periyar district that time, not in the cold UK. I know how many refugees flocked TN and in what conditions. Either you do not know things or you are intentionally trying to hide them. I hope the former is right, judging from the views you have put forward in good faith.

Last of all, but also MOST OF ALL, the whole controversy was kindled by the Kannada “intellectuals” in the Outlook story and in your state. Tamils never started it. We mind our business, you are not letting us to be so. I understand that you are stung by the language used by certain readers here, but I hpe you will also understand how wounded and stung Tamils would be by the language and views expressed by the “intellectuals” in the magazine article. Certainly, Tamils are not the ones who are the trouble creators. Please let us live in peace, do not keep meddling into our affairs. And if you ( I mean ur Kannada activists) do meddle, you cannot expect a glove and velvette handling from us. Hope you will think about it in the right perspective.

GOWRISHANKAR E S
LONDON   UK


Daily Letters | 9 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
If the links given for the news items in The Hindu and The Deccan Herald do not work, please search the archives section in their websites for March 10, 2004 issue.

GOWRISHANKAR E S
LONDON   UK

http://www.outlookindia.com/rantsmag.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kannada%20(F)&sid=1&pn=5

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Daily Letters | 9 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
A correction of detail: The riots occurred between December 1991 and January 2002, and not in April as I mentioned earlier.The immediate provocation was a bandh called for by the GOVERNMENT OF KARNATAKA led by Bangarappa (not by some isolated fanatics). Cauvery Riot Relief Authority was a constitutional body looking into the affair. All these are documented facts with legal authority. Not simply LTTE propaganda, of course, unless Supreme Court judges are members of LTTE. (No sane person can insult the Supreme Court this way. May be S.M.Krishna and like others would do that).

GOWRISHANKAR E S
LONDON   UK


Daily Letters | 9 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
I think you mean Dec 1991 and Jan 1992.

MD JOE VASANTH
BELFAST   UNITED KINGDOM


Daily Letters | 10 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
It is wise to declare Idli, Dose(not Dosa!!!), Vade as dishes common to all south Indian before Our friends declare it as “Classical”

JAYASIMHA
BANGALORE   INDIA


Published Letters | 19 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Corrigenda

  • In the article A Question of Antiquity (July 12), Chandrasekara Kambar’s quote was wrongly attributed to U.R. Ananthamurthy in the blurb. We regret the error.

  • In the article A Hard Clay Tablet (Dec 8, 2003), we had inadvertently carried a photograph of the factory premises of Chinar Pharmaceuticals, which hinted that the company was an unlicensed manufacturer. We regret any harm caused to the company because of this mistake.

   


Published Letters | 26 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
What’s Your Tam Rating?
I read your article on Tamil vs Kannada (A Question of Antiquity, July 12). I was a student and then a colleague of A.K. Ramanujan and knew him quite well. Though he cherished Kannada and its literature, he never referred to it as ‘classical’ whereas he always spoke of Sangam literature as classical Tamil. What makes Tamil a classical language is that its literature is demonstrably older than that of any other Indian language except Sanskrit (and some Prakrits and Pali), that it has an independent (of Sanskrit) tradition and that it has an extraordinarily rich body of very early literature. The fact that it came from proto-Dravidian is immaterial, since all ‘classical’ languages derive from ‘proto’ languages (Sanskrit, Greek and Latin are from proto-Indo-European). Kannada, for all its richness, does not possess an independent tradition—it owes too much to Sanskrit—and it does not have a substantial body of literature as old as that of Tamil. Sangam literature dates from the 1st to the 3rd century AD.
George Hart, Prof of Tamil, Univ. of California, Berkeley

It’s astonishing that spoken Kannada contains words like uhiru for fingernail which is found only in old Tamil literature and is now extinct in spoken Tamil. When the Greeks and the Romans traded with south India, they landed at ports like Puhaar in the east and Musiri in the west which were Tamil territory. Early Sangam literature is acknowledged to belong to BC.
Dr R. Narasimhan, London

K.R. Narayana’s comments are appalling. Tamil is a common language that has no caste barriers, only regional dialects, just like any other language. His suggestion that Tamil is divided on casteist lines is misleading. In that case, is Kannada too divided along caste lines?
Divya Manian, Singapore

Rather than chauvinists on both sides hijacking and exploiting the issue, independent scholars of linguistics should deliver the verdict on whether Tamil or Kannada is the classical language. K.V. Narayana is intuitively right when he attributes different dialects of a language to castes rather than regions.
Murali Asadha, Mugaiyur, Tamil Nadu

I think it’s plain jealousy that’s making Kannadiga intellectuals link the request for making Kannada a classical language to the status of Tamil. It is well-known and proven that Tamil’s Sangam era coincided with the start of the Christian era. The Tholkappiyam, in fact, was written at this time. So even if Tamil is not the original parent language, it is the oldest of all surviving Dravidian languages. Let Kannadigas accept that as a reality and learn to live with it.
Shankar Subramanian, Warsaw

Kannadigas suffer from some inscrutable inferiority complex especially when it comes to the Tamils. They look at Tamils as their enemies—primarily because of the Cauvery water issue; riparian states assume the role of “givers”. If the case of Tamil is taken up, it is not to prove a point over any other language but to its own cause.
Tamil Selvan, Bangalore

You claim Tamil and Kannada linguists are “arrayed” on “opposite sides to lay claim to a classical status”. Well, they weren’t till you made them. Anyone who knows his/her subject does not doubt the classical status of Tamil.
Gowrishankar E.S., London

While I as a Kannadiga don’t grudge the granting of a classical status to Tamil, such a move by the government will give more ammunition to those Tamil activists (and there are many) who have nothing but contempt for other languages.
Yashovardhana Kote, Columbus, US

The Tamil language is beyond comparison, not just among the four Dravidian languages but also with respect to any other Indian language since it has been a contemporary of most ancient languages such as Greek, Latin, Hebrew and Mandarin. Its value and reach are so that it has been recognised outside India in four countries as one of their national languages (Singapore, Malaysia, Mauritius and Sri Lanka). I speak Telugu.
Arun Prasanna, Chennai

I think Kannada too should be dubbed classical. It meets the one important condition: that it is extinct. I don’t think anyone outside India’s heard of it!
M.S. Sankar, London, UK

Speaking about Tamil and Kannada in the same breath is like juxtaposing Outlook with Debonair.
Krishna K., on e-mail

   


Daily Letters | 18 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
M.S Shankar writes that Kannada is extinct. the only reason being outside of India nobody has heard it. That’s because Kannadigas are smart enough to learn the local lingo wherever they are. They do not impose their language unlike their neighbours. Why can’t Tams speak proper English or Hindi do they have a genetic problem?

RAVI SATHISH
LOGAN   USA


Daily Letters | 19 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Whoever has raised this debate has raised the most chauvinistic issue? I dont understand what benefits get bestowed upon a race by declaring its language as classical.But by allowing people to claim the supremacy of their respective language is like allowing anybody to claim that his mother is best in comparison with others’ mothers or like allowing a violinist to claim that it is the best musical instrument over a veena or a flute.Every language has its own features verbal beauty,sweet nuances, classicism, literary forms etc, if just antiquity is the question then let be a historic decision and remain in history books. Please dont allow anybody to claim supremacy of one language as a whole, over any other language, because all other features of the language other than antiquity can only be enjoyed by people who speak it, who live with it , who enjoy and/or create literary forms in it and no body, not even an independant observer can judge it. In a multi-lingual country like ours, the call of the day is to give mutual-respect for each others’ social, traditional,religious, linguistic concerns while each practicing his own.

RATNAKAR
BANGALORE   INDIA

http://www.outlookindia.com/rantsmag.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kannada%20(F)&sid=1&pn=6

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Daily Letters | 20 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Most of the comments here reveal how gullible Indians are to political manoeuvre. It is a disgrace to a great language like Tamil that it got the so-called “Classical” language status ONLY because DMK is the largest supporter to the government at the centre rather than its own merits. DMK certainly achieved what they wanted by looking at comments which sheepishly follow the political stunt.
The pro-tamil comments here betray blatant ignorance & chauvinism. Indeed it is these guys who make Tamilnadu and subsequently India what it is. Bravo !!

SM
CB   U.K


Daily Letters | 21 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
First the article is written with the aim to sensationalize the Tamil classical status. Already the Outlook guys would be patting on their backs for having successfully created a fist fight among kannadigas and Tamils. Let us not give in to those. But I’m being a Tamil I would like to ask these kannadigas, why envy your neighbor, go ahead and ask for classical status to what evere you can think of and we Tamils will not crib over it unlike you

SIVAKUMAR
CHENNAI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 23 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
It is Good to see Kannada people becoming assertive about their language. Otherwise Tamil will become official language of Karanataka

SRIKANT
HUBLI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 25 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
“Tamil and Kannada linguists array themselves on opposite sides to lay claim to a classical status.” didn’t happen until it got published on July 12, Issue.

VIJAY VENKATASUBRAMANI
NOIDA   INDIA


Daily Letters | 29 Jul, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Its high time tamilians get to know that gone are the days when south indians were known as madrasis.It is for these kinds of chauvinist acts that makes tamilians outsiders where ever they reside and are never considered as one amongsts the locals.Loving ones language is different to being fanatic and that is what has caused such severe differences amongs the gentle and humble kannadigas and tamilians since they not only not become part of the local crowd in other regions but also try to improvise their language on others which makes them the most hateable indian breed everywhere.Please folks learn to live amicably whereever u guys settle down and let others live in peace too.

CHETAN T A
BANGALORE   INDIA


Daily Letters | 14 Sep, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)

MD JOE VASANTH
BELFAST   UNITED KINGDOM


Daily Letters | 14 Sep, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Dear Mr Chetan
I am really surprised by your short sighted views regarding the tamils.Have you ever seen any Tamil improvising our language on others.
Its the Hindi which is being imposed on others (which you whole heartedly accept without having any shame.)I do agree that most of the tamils are proud of our language.But nobody is fanatic.please understand the difference between pride and fanatism.Undoubtedly tamil is the oldest dravidian language and is the mother of the other dravidian languages.thers no Q about that.Its a fact.If anyone says this FACT why do you call him a fanatic?So do u mean that just to appease you we should never claim the classic status of our language?Does that make sense?Think before you talk.Dont shout out of Inf Complex.Hope you understand this.All the best.

MD JOE VASANTH
BELFAST   UNITED KINGDOM

http://www.outlookindia.com/rantsmag.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kannada%20(F)&sid=1&pn=7

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Daily Letters | 16 Sep, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Please visit the following link to clarify certain details

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictiona ry.com/Classical+languages

KALYANASUNDARAM
CHENNAI   INDIA


Daily Letters | 16 Sep, 2004 11:24:45AM (IST)
Please visit the following link

http://tamil.berkeley.edu/Tamil%20Chai r/TamilClassicalLanguage/TamilClassicalLgeLtr.html

KALYANASUNDARAM
CHENNAI   INDIA http://www.outlookindia.com/rantsmag.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kannada%20(F)&sid=1&pn=8

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November 9, 2007 - Posted by | Classical status to Kannada

9 Comments »

  1. Amongst the South Indian Languages, there is written data available for Tamil, Kannada and Telugu languages. Whereas, Tamil Shaashanaas (records) have been found dating from 3rd century B. C.; in Kannada, the first shaashana is the 450 A.D. Halmidi shaashana. Ancient books like Vaddaaraadhane (800), Kaviraja Marga (850) are also available.

    Though written literature appeared later, there are many other sources and proofs to prove Kannada’s antiquity:

    1. 450 B.C. paaNini’s “aShTaadhaayi” has a reference to a “karnaadhaka” gOtra

    2. 250 B.C. King Ashoka’s shaashana has a reference to name called “isila” which is said to be Kannada origin

    3. 80 B.C. In the Prakrit shaashana of Madhavpur-Vadagavi, the word “NaaTapati” is a word of Kannada origin

    4. 150 A.D. Ancient Greek historian Ptolemy’s book “Pappyrus” Kannada towns “kalligere”, “baadaami”, “mudugal” find mention.

    5. 150 A.D. In the ancient Greek comedy “Aksirinkas Pappyri” there has been an attempt to understand Kannada words

    6. 150 A.D.In a Prakrit shaashana, there are Kannada words like “maTTapaTTi” (maLavaLLi)

    7. There is an abundance of Kannada in many Prakrit shaashanas:

    a. Words “nagipa”, “saMkapa” found in the 100 B.C.Prakrit shaashana have a Kannada form

    b. Usage of words like “manaaLi” originates in the union of two Kannada words “mun” + “paLLi”

    c. Kannada towns have been named in constructs like “saMbalIva oora vaasinO”

    d. “mooDaaNa” a word used in different languages to represent the Eastern direction is of Kannada origin

    8. 150 A.D. In the Prakrit book “gaathaa saptashati” written by Haala Raja, Kannada words like “tIr”, “tuppa”, “peTTu”, “poTTu” have been used.

    9. 250 A.D. On the Pallava Prakrit shaashana of Hire Hadagali’s Shivaskandavarman, Kannada word “kOTe” transforms into “koTTa”

    10. 250 A.D. In the Tamil mega tome “shilappadikaaraM” written by Ilango Adi, there is reference to Kannada in the form of the ! word “karunaaDagar”

    11. 350 A.D. In the Chandravalli Prakrit shaasana, words of Kannada origin like “punaaTa”, “puNaDa” have been used.

    12. 250 A.D. In one more Prakrit shaasana found in Malavalli,

    13. Kannada towns like “vEgooraM” (bEgooru), “kundamuchchaMDi” find reference.

    In the recent 2003 Harvard publication “Early Tamil Epigraphy” authored by Iravatam Mahadev has important substance in the current discussion. This publication provides a new direction and paradigms to the question of Kannada’s antiquity. It extends the antiquity of Kannada to older times than presently known. It also presents a new thought that Tamil came under the Kannada influence in the years of B.C. timeframe. Some Tamil shaasana’s beginning in the 3rd century B.C. shows a marked Kannada influence.

    In the 1-3 B.C. Tamil shaashanas, words of Kannada influence “nalliyooraa”, kavuDi”, “posil” have been introduced. The use of the vowel “a” as an adjective is not prevalent in Tamil, its usage is available in Kannada. Kannada words like “gouDi-gavuDi” transform into Tamil’s “kavuDi” for lack of the usage of “Ghosha
    svana” in Tamil. That is the reason Kannada’s “gavuDi” becomes “kavuDi” in Tamil. “posil” (Kannada “hosilu”) is another Kannada word that got added into Tamil. Colloquial Tamil uses this word as “vaayil”.

    In the 1 A.D. Tamil shaasana, there is a personal reference to “ayjayya” which is of Kannada origin. In another 3 A.D. Tamil shaasana, there is usage of the words “oppanappa vIran”. The influence of Kannada’s usage of “appa” to add respect to a person’s name is evident here. “taayviru” is another word of Kannada influence in another 4 A.D. Tamil shaasana. We can keep growing this list citing many such examples of Kannada’s influence on Tamil during the B.C.-A.D. times.

    Kannada’s influence on ancient Tamil as depicted by the language of these shaasana’s is of historical importance. There are no written data available in Kannada from the times when these Tamil records show a marked Kannada influence. Moreover, there have been no findings/ discussions of this face of Tamil till now, that of a deep Kannada influence on it.

    In the ambit of the current discussion in the country about “Classical Languages”, this influence of the influence of Kannada on ancient Tamil is of significance. In the Central Government’s announcement of “Tamil Language literature is of antiquity. It has grown independent of the influence of other languages’ literature. This is the reason that Tamil is being accorded the ‘Classical language’ tag”, these findings have shown the weak foundation on which the announcement was made. It has also shown the similar antiqueness of Kannada and the influence it had on Tamil to make it what it is now. These Tamil shaasanas have extended the horizons of understanding of ancient Karnataka’s language, and socio-religious culture.

    The next natural question is that of the delay of about 500 years between the difference in the appearance of the Kannada v/s the Tamil written records. These originate in the political and administrative spheres of those times: the regions of the current Karnataka and Andhra were then still under the influence of the Mauryas and Shaatavaahanas, whereas, Tamil regions enjoyed independence of usage in administration and writing. The Cheras, Cholas, Pantiyas, Satiya Putra Adiyamanas adopted Tamil. The Jainas, Buddhist monks adopted the Brahmi font to the Tamil sound/ language.

    Karanataka and Andhra were under the Sanskrit deference. Many Prakrit languages were in circulation since 6 B.C. in the Northern parts of India: The Jains, and Buddhist monks learnt these languages and wrote and taught in these Prakrit/ Pali languages. In the south, they first a! dopted, used and taught in Tamil since there was patronage for that language in the Tamil regions. There was no opputunity for Kannada to gain such currency under the influence of the Northern rulers. Such political reasons delayed the emergence of Kannada into the literal mainstream for about 500 years. Kannada finally started its independent emergence under the rule of the Kadambas and the Gangas. With such political and administrative patronage, Kannada literature really blossomed under the Badami Chalukyas.

    The summary of this discussion is enunciated in the following points:

    1. Kannada came into its independent existence from the proto-Dravidian language in the 6 B.C. timeframe.

    2. In about 3-4 B.C. Kannada was already in use by the common people.

    3. In 3 B.C. Kannada influenced the Indo-Aryan languages like Prakrit.

    4. In the 2-1 B.C. timeframe, Kannada also influenced the Dravidian language Tamil.

    5. There are socio-political reasons for the 500 year delay of the emergence of Kannada in shaasanas when compared to Tamil shaasanas. That does not mean Kannada at that time did not have its own language, script and literature.

    6. The reasons for and against the emergence of Kannada were political: The Banavasi Kadambas were the first to use Kannada as the second administrative language. Badami Chalukyas were the first to use Kannada as a primary administrative language granting it patronage of being the official language and the language of the state. After that, Kannada has not looked back!

    Research by HAMPANA

    Comment by Nrupathunga | November 12, 2007 | Reply

  2. It is necessary for KANNADIGAS to know about the greatness of their language which most are not aware of.

    There is no need to comments of about others.
    GOLD IS ALWAYS GOLD.

    Comment by Nrupathunga | November 12, 2007 | Reply

  3. Tamilians are like frogs, they think “pond” is everything, but kannada people are like sharks in big oceans, they have seen everything. They know, ocean is bigger than pond. Even the tamil frogs make noises, they do not shout, they just eat them up. Do not compare frogs(tamilians) with sharks (kannada people). If we bite u will be no where.

    Comment by Kannadiga Lion | July 6, 2008 | Reply

  4. Hello Tamils Friends,
    You wrote blogs one after the other, some people repeated same matter in different version with some PRIDE of tamil. But the fact is fact- KANNADA DECLEARED AS CLASSICAL LANGUAGE IN NOVEMBER 2008. Tamilians know lobbying better than Kannadigas (The Histroy the same) so way they got classical tag in 2004 just 4 years early.
    Whereever possible tamilans try to dominate, see in SRILANKA. Thought they live in Srilanka from 3-4 centuries, still try to have a seperate nation and still fighting for it. Many tamilians inside India living outside TAMILNADU doing the same as their cousins doing SRILANKA. For everythng there is an END. In past many centuries tamils snubbed other languages/people the same way. But for every thing an END.
    HISTROY SAYS IT MY TAMIL BROTHERS.

    DONT SHOUT MUCH YOU ARE COUNTING DAYS.
    SEE IN ANOTHER TEN YEARS. LETS TALK THAN ABOUT YOUR PRIDE AND BIG VOICE.

    Comment by Shashikumar | February 15, 2009 | Reply

  5. HEY TAMILA, USE FEW WORDS WHILE SPEAKING OR WRITING OR TALKING.
    WHO IS TAMILIAN?
    FOR THIS QUESTION, I GUESS, A TAMIL DOG’S ANSWER MAY 1,00,000 PAGES. BECAUSE YOU DOGS BARK MORE, YOU KNOW!!!

    SEE THE BLOGS ABOVE. HOW MANY DOGS BARKED THE WAY AS I SAID.

    THANK GOD – “KANNADA DECLEARED AS CLASSICAL LANGUAGE” IN NOVEMBER 2008. SOME TAMILS DOGS SUBMIITED AFFIFDAVIT IN CHENNAI HIGH COURT NOT TO DECLEAR KANNADA AS CLASSICAL LANGUAGE (SEE DOGS WHAT THEY DID AGAIN- PISSING ON STONE LIFTING LEG). IT SHOWS WHAT TAMILS ARE!!!

    STOP BARKING ON ELEPHANTS
    GAME OVER

    Comment by Shashikumar | February 15, 2009 | Reply

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