Kannada, Kannadiga, Kannadigaru, Karnataka,

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Karnataka’s linguistic inferiority complex

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Purohita Kannada <kannada.purohita@gmail.com>
To: kannada.purohita@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:58:04 +0530
Subject: Karnataka’s linguistic inferiority complex

Online version: http://purohita.blogspot.com

Friday, January 05, 2007

Karnataka’s linguistic inferiority complex

Just as the effect of hundreds of years of environment can be seen in the bark of a tree, the effect of hundreds of years of history can be seen in the linguistic inferiority complex that prevails in Karnataka today. I use the term linguistic inferiority complex (LIC) to denote inferiority complex relating to one’s own language, its utility, its boundaries and its importance. The disastrous effects of this inferiority complex can be seen in our education system, our society, industry, and in general just about everywhere. LIC is so second nature to the so-called “thinkers” of Karnataka today that even its existence is not acknowledged by them. LIC in Karnataka is made up of the following four unwritten linguistic inferiority complexes, not one of them scientific or democratic or supported by commonsense or fact:

  1. Kannada can be used only for “simple conversations and light stuff like poetry, drama and other non-scientific things”
  2. English is the best language for “conversations between intelligent people; definitely the language for any scientific topic”
  3. Samskruta is the only language for anything even slightly spiritual
  4. Hindi is more important than Kannada in India

The first inferiority complex can be traced to India’s colonial past. The British who opened English schools instead of Kannada and Samskruta schools sowed the seed of linguistic inferiority complex. School students used to get punished for speaking in Kannada (this is seen even today in most of Bengalooru schools) and rewarded for every small achievement in English. With this a sense of achievement got attached to English and a sense of non-achievement to Kannada. Kannada came to be slowly regarded as a language fit only for simple conversations and light stuff like poetry, drama and other non-scientific things – because the British simply didn’t let anything other than that to go on in Kannada. They truly didn’t think Kannada was fit for anything at all. Even after independence and consequent formation of linguistic states, Kannada is not fully implemented in administration, education or industry.

Since the British introduced English as the panacea in the atmosphere of inferiority which they themselves created, it slowly replaced Kannada as the language for conversations between intelligent people; definitely the language for any scientific topic. The English education system was nothing but an engine producing more and more people with this fatal inferiority complex, fit to serve the British crown. Those who came out of the system took pride in hating Kannada, making fun of Kannada and being able to speak English. The flawed arguments that English (as opposed to knowledge) is the strength based on which we can win global markets today, that English is the language of science and technology, stem from this very same inferiority complex continuing to pollute a Kannadiga’s blood. Although examples exist of countries like Japan, Israel, France, etc., which have all their systems in the language of the land, a Kannadiga is blind to this because of this second inferiority complex.

Samskruta enjoys a special place in Karnataka because of the huge corpus of spiritual literature which exists in it (not that we read or understand it). Almost every spiritual thinker of India – real or fake – has resorted to Samskruta as the language for his spiritual literature. This has been disastrous from the point of view of dissemination of true spiritual thinking among Kannadigas. Even today, most of Karnataka remains spiritually challenged because of this single mistake. Kannadigas have come to believe that spiritual literature cannot exist in Kannada, that our Gods understand only Samskruta! We are so spiritually blind and so mesmerized by Samskruta that we think anything and everything written in Samskruta is divine, that even the language and its grammar are divine and worth imitating in Kannada. It’s a pity that even our grammarians have bought into the flawed theory that Kannada – a Dravidian language – is derived from Samskruta, a theory proven totally wrong by linguists all over the world. This is our third inferiority complex.

The issue of Hindi (at best a budding language when it comes to age or achievement compared to Kannada) is more recent but reminiscent of British imperialism. Although there is no constitutional provision granting Hindi the status of “National language”, Karnataka has been made to believe so. Hindi is merely – but undemocratically – the only official language of the Indian Union, but schoolchildren in Karnataka are taught the blatant lie that Hindi is the National language of India. The central government invests hundreds of crores of rupees every year to impose Hindi on Kannadigas in education and central government institutions, even banks, using every medium possible. In the name of urbanization, entertainment media has very tactfully imposed Hindi on Kannadigas and made us believe that real entertainment can exist only in Hindi. Slowly, therefore, the suicidal feeling that Kannada is “not enough” to get on to Mainstream India has crept into a Kannadiga’s thinking. Kannadigas have come to believe that Hindi is a more important language than their mother-tongue in India. This is our fourth inferiority complex.

Linguistic inferiority complex is draining the life-blood of Kannadigas, turning us into inferior individuals building an inferior Karnataka. It has already brought about a class divide in Karnataka. The “higher class” slights Kannada and Karnataka, experiences physical pain living in Karnataka, is devoid of self-respect, cannot compete with westerners in true intelligence because of having to use a foreign language, and is waiting in long visa queues to escape from reality. The “lower class” – which cannot slight Kannada and Karnataka – is removed from education, science and technology (due to English) and commerce (due to English/Hindi). Both classes are removed from spirituality (due to Samskruta). It is clear that linguistic inferiority complex must be rooted out from the mind of every Kannadiga if at all we wish to progress. There is no option but to think of ways in which Kannada can completely replace English in education, science and technology, and Samskruta in spirituality and religion. Hindi together with the baggage of lies must be removed from school syllabi and the constitutional priority of Kannada in Karnataka must instead be taught; Kannada must replace it in central government offices, banks and commercial institutions.


January 6, 2007 - Posted by | Bangalore, Karnataka and Kannada, Nanjundappa Report


  1. Its very sad to see many nationalised banks that originated in Dakshina Kannada district are blatantly promoting Hindi

    Comment by Kalidasa | January 7, 2007 | Reply

  2. Hindi Must be shown the “EXIT” on Karnataka’s Freeway.Damn with India and the Indian govt imposition of Hindi on Karnataka.

    Comment by Kalidasa | January 7, 2007 | Reply

  3. Interesting. The only single point which is not just awfully flawed, but shows where the writer is coming from, in my opinion is:”Kannada can be used only for “simple conversations and light stuff like poetry, drama and other non-scientific things”
    The minute you term poetry, drama and what you call non-scientific as ” light” you’re damned in my opinion. While politics and science is all very nice. What defines a nation, or a state is its culture…. and culture is about poetry, theatre, literature–all of which are bound within the boundaries of language(most of the time). If kannada poetry, literature and theatre has flourished and use of kannada in science has not–then what comes to light is the greatness of the kannada literateurs or the dramatists or the poets.. and not the attitude that it was ” allowed” by the colonizer or the Hindi imposing central govt.

    And, for your information it has not been ” allowed” so easily. In a country of 1 billion, we have one National School for Drama, situated in Delhi, where obviously the hindi speaking students score. Brilliant artists from TN, Karnataka and Kerala go without acting in major plays for years, because the policy is that all plays will be staged in hindi. EVen as we speak Kannada theatre artists have started a satyagraha asking for the intervention of the central govt.. in creating a separate policy for each state, and for more NSDs spread across the country.

    And, from a writer who thinks that literature, drama and poetry, probably cinema too is ” Light” i fail to understand the enthusiasm to project Language as an entity by itself.. or with reference to science, technology and spirituality.. the first IMO in pursuit of wealth and the last in connection to religion.

    Comment by Nimi | January 7, 2007 | Reply

  4. The reason for Dakshina Kannada banks promiting Hindi is very simple.The Babus of Finance Minsitry and the the politically appointed Chairmen and MDs are all from Saouth Kanara.

    As regards to LIC, the article is deficient in thought and substance.

    Shankar Shetty

    Comment by Shankar Shetty | January 7, 2007 | Reply

  5. Beats me! How can the leading IT destination of the globe have an inferiority complex in terms of its language?

    This post can only be called as partisan politics. Your providing the politicians one more reason to polarize people. Why fight? We will only hurt India’s future… if the govt is wrong for having imposed Hindi on southern states, Karnataka govt is wrong for imposing Kannada on the Public school system.

    I’ve grown up to believe that Language and Culture needs to be taught through the med. of love, understanding and necessity. We ought to be paying attention to basic issues like electricity, water and hygiene and so on.

    Comment by Santosh | January 7, 2007 | Reply

  6. As a Bangalorean, I am a citizen of Karnataka, but linguistically, I am not kannadiga. While I support the author partially, we must realise that teaching our youngsters science in Kannada is not really an issue. The problem is education in the first place. Our primary schooling system has improved, but there is a long way to go before we can claim to teach quality…in any language.
    My problem is that in a country like India, where there are many languages indeed, each with its own rich history and culture, there also must be a common language by which we can converse with those of other states and countries. This is why I favour teaching English in addition to the local language of the state. Both of these are important. But both of these are also essential!

    Comment by Balasubramanian V | January 7, 2007 | Reply

  7. What a ridiculous claim! I cannot think of a more inferiority minded article than this….. if you give credit to this article, you are setting yourself up to defeat the cause that led you to write this article. You are giving yourself a reason or reasons to actually put yourself down. I don’t see any part of our language as being little. Ironical as it might seem, i live in the United States and i am a devout Kannadiga.

    I am proud of where i come from and what i have accomplished. It is necessary to notice that we live in a global economy and a global thought process is extremely important to be competitive. I see this as us being open minded not inferior. I see this as us willing to change and not to fear. We are a brave bunch of people, Our civilization is thousands of years old. We have changed and evolved, imporved and survived countless threats. While other older civilizations failed to change and perished, we found a new lease of life on this planet everytime we have encountered a serious challenge.

    We live in the best possible time that our country could think of, our state could think of. I would plead you to stop being an antagonist. If we get to compete more in a global level, we will attract attention to our histroy, culture, language etc and thus end up getting more money to enhance it, than we could actually think of. Its not a threat but an opportunity guys. So stop cribbing, wake up and take charge. Stop looking for excuses, look for answers!

    Comment by nammaskara | January 7, 2007 | Reply

  8. I think that a common language in a country like India is a must. Why must we always be throwing things out? Why cant English, Kannada and Hindi co-exist together?

    I cant understand the aggressive attitude of the South towards Hindi speaking states or people from North. I think its time the South became more secular. Now, it just feels that they think that they dont belong as a part of India but are living in some seperate existence of theirs. They are a shame to Indian patriots.

    Comment by SS | January 8, 2007 | Reply

  9. Mr SS (above me) just accused us of not being patriots……… can you name all the southern states without looking at the indian map? Talk about secularism!
    Aren’t we Secular? Can you find a more metropolitan (secular) city in India than Bangalore? You can’t even think of a city like Bangalore……. you can talk any of ur 26 odd major languages and still get by (try doin that in Delhi)…. i cannot think of one city that you can scrape by without knowing the local language…… stop being a hypocrite….

    Comment by aj | January 8, 2007 | Reply

  10. I completely agree with Nimi…..

    Comment by Arun M | January 9, 2007 | Reply

  11. Thanks for your replies. I will address the various questions, allegations and support from you guys in further articles/blogs on purohita.blogspot.com

    Comment by Purohita | January 9, 2007 | Reply

  12. I think Aj is right!!.

    I have a simple concept… look at the European countries..
    Germany , France , Italy.. I dont think some people in these countries…know “English” to spell .. Even then are these nations on the G8 .. ie they are counted among the developed nations… Some of these nations are not even the size of Karnataka…

    Then y do we need HINDI..ENGLISH..to be developed !!!. Here i speak of karnataka.. I some how think that india dont deserve most of its states.. for it has done nothing for them or their people…

    If we all become patriot towards our mother tounge..and do some thing that we can do to contribute..to KANNADA we will do a huge difference in comming years ahead…

    Comment by Ashwin | January 19, 2007 | Reply

  13. Reply to SS

    SS Said: I cant understand the aggressive attitude of the South towards Hindi speaking states or people from North.

    Answer: You will never understand, so do most of the people from north, who cannot understand and respect the sentiments of South Indians. It is the arrogance of the north Indian, because of which the northie assumes that by default everyone should speak Hindi, because He thinks and expects everyone to believe that Hindi is the National Language of this country. Forget what the northie thinks, they(the arrogant ones from the North India) dont even respect south indian’s language, culture etc etc.!!! And you are talking about south Indians being aggressive?

    SS Said: I think its time the South became more secular.

    Answer: Well, either you dont know the meaning of Secular or your sense of directions seem to be opposite. South has been very much insulated from the communal events that take place in the country. Neither is there a presence of Casteism to the extent that is present in North India (I am not saying that it doesnt exist)

    SS Said: Now, it just feels that they think that they dont belong as a part of India but are living in some seperate existence of theirs. They are a shame to Indian patriots.

    Answer: Well, The fact is, Not all North Indians are arrogant and ignorant and disrespectful and the same applies the the South Indians. Politicians look for baits like you and the person who wrote this blog, mesmerise you people and make people you their puppets and divide this country (because these politicians have learnt it well from the British, “Divide and Rule”)

    Reply to Ashwin:

    Europeans talk their own language “AND” they are developed.
    India is “NOT” Developed

    Europeans ventured out of their countries circa 1000 AD and started conquering the world. Before they could conquer, they learnt the language, culture and then conquered. The main thing they did is that even when they learnt the foreign languages, they imposed their culture and language once the country was conquered.

    I see the globalisation as a same process that happened a 1000 years ago, but this time it is the Indians who are venturing out. Indians taking over the rule is out of question (the Crab story stands very true which signifies the failure of united India), But I am sure, if Indians are proud enough and respect thier Indian culture, I dont see why the indian culture/language shouldnt flourish in foreign lands!

    Comment by Nitin | February 1, 2007 | Reply

  14. Another Reason Why Kannada is not endangered by other languages:

    Quoted from Wikipedia

    “Kannada literature has had the prestige of most Jnanpith awards (seven in all) and forty eight Sahitya Academy awards among all Indian languages.

    Jnanpeetha Awardees

    1. 1967 Kuvempu for Sri Ramayana Darshanam
    2. 1973 Da.Ra.Bendre for Naaku thanthi
    3. 1977 Shivaram Karanth for Mookajjiya Kanasugalu
    4. 1983 Masti Venkatesh Iyengar for Chikaveera Raajendhra
    5. 1990 Vi.Kru.Gokak for Bhaaratha Sindhhu Rashmi
    6. 1994 U.R.Ananthamurthy for his works in Kannada / samagra sahitya
    7. 1998 Girish Karnad for his dramatic works in Kannada / samagra sahitya”

    Comment by Nitin | February 1, 2007 | Reply

  15. What one can acheive by not cribbing, but by perseverance and hardwork, which is something cribbers(people with North/South india attitude) dont do:

    “Karnad is most famous as a playwright. His plays, written in Kannada, have been widely translated into English and all major Indian languages. One interesting aspect about Karnad is that, his plays are written neither in English in which he dreamed of earning international literary fame, nor in his mother tongue Konkani. Instead, they are composed in his adopted language Kannada. When Karnad started writing plays, Kannada literature was highly influenced by renaissance in Western literature. Writers would chose a subject which looked entirely alien to manifestation of native soil. In a situation like that Karnad found a new approach like drawing historical and mythological sources to tackle contemporary themes. His first play “Yayati”(1961), ridicules the ironies of life through mythical characters in Mahabharata and became an instant success, immediately translated and staged in several other Indian languages. “Tughlaq”(1964), his best loved play, established Karnad as one of the most promising playwrights in the country.”

    -quoted from wikipedia

    Comment by Nitin | February 1, 2007 | Reply

  16. The, why the hell u guyz use english to express this. Bcoz u know the pain to use Kannada for blogging…

    Comment by Why the hell? | February 3, 2007 | Reply

  17. i am a northe, i know to converse fluently in kannada n write it as welll, but please tell me how can som1 command to me as to which language i have to speak, ( i accept da fact dat there has been illtreatment by northies), but does it make sense to make a mistake to correct another. the approach adopted by som(or most) is doin more damage to the kannada people. let me put it this way some times we need to find a smart way of conveying our taughts, (the way tamilians do: they just dnt seem to know ny other lang besides tamil) i donna if it wud be rit but thats the way i see. but plz change the approach n i guess it will wrk. comin to BANGALORE majority of da population here are non kannadigaS and if da sad ways of promoting kannada continue i think then the gap vl worsen. its a big change in the rite direction but the rite way is not being adopted by many……

    Comment by panache | February 3, 2007 | Reply

  18. I bet .. if this post was written in Kannada… more than half of us would not have read it!!! Engineering and technology is model based. A model requires a reproducible language.. Knowledge increases with reproducibility!!! English seems to have a better reproducibility than kannada… Hence… Engineering and technology has to be in english for knowledge growth!!! These are basics of Systems Engineering!!!

    You need to face reality. If you do Engineering and technology in kannada… you should not look for jobs in europe & US or even their companies in India like most of you are doing right now!!! Hypocrites!!! The first thing you do in an interview is try to show off your English!!!

    Comment by studentind | February 17, 2007 | Reply

  19. Nimi’s and Balasubramanian’s points are correct. Poetry & literature are what define the progress of a language (and for that matter culture as a whole), and education in Kannada isn’t an issue, but education itself is! That apart, being a Kannadiga, I too feel bad at the state of affairs with the language, but i think it’s unfair to blame the English languag as the bane of all the problems faced by Kannada. Let’s face it, the British were ingenious (and cunning) enough to spread imperialism and hence English around. Once done, after independence, it became the duty of the national leaders to promote and hold high the banners for their respective languages.

    Although we were divided into states linguistically, the emergence of Hindi as the majority language led to protests in 1965, which sadly was not supported by any Kannada leader and was only done by Tamil leaders. That would have been the perfect opportunity to sow the seed for the rebirth of the language.

    Comment by Karthik Shetty | February 21, 2007 | Reply

  20. I love kannada because im born kannadiga .. if i was born and brought up in tamilnadu .. i would be typing the same stuff about tamil in some tamil blog .. Guys, its time we stopped such debates .. everybody loves their own lanuage… lets get to work!!

    Comment by nannista | February 22, 2007 | Reply

  21. hahaha…nice …u know wat 70% bangalorians speak hindi…n yea let me tell u onethin herein bangalore ppl r the most orthodox n they think like britishers “DIVIDE N RULE” fuckin wats wrong whether we speak kannada o english…i am a kannadiga but i never learnt kannada n y shall i ????wats the need huh ?? bein an INDIAN we all should first learn our national language thn ne regional langauge…i just speak kannada wen i m stuck among some orthodox kannadigas ((or roudis)) u know wat image these autowala n these orthodox hv outside the state ?? they are jus called bloody kannadigas mind this okie…first of all teach ur frens n neighbours not to do galata for ne minute thing on road n stop takin advantage of bein a kannadigas…if u r not aware thn lemme tell u 88 % of ppl in bangalore r not kannadigas by birth …n rest 12 % are very decent who are real kannadigas….hope u can understand n start uniting….let us communicate in each other’s preferred language…don’t be selfish …..

    Comment by hell | May 27, 2007 | Reply

  22. @hell,
    Look Chap, You are a born Kannadiga and you don’t know Kannada….It does not matter…. BUT remember DO NOT look at Kannadigas in such a inferior way….. So you are of the opinion that only ‘roudis’ speak Kannada…..
    That is naive of you………I speak Kannada and I am more comfortable with it rather than English or Hindi though I went to a school where they charge a fine of 10 bucks for conversing in Kannada………….
    Does that mean I am a ‘roudi’, An ignorant FOOL of an ASS!!

    Be Sane!! You are acting like an American ass who believe that everyone in the world must and should know English…..

    How different are you(A Pseudo-American) from Jehadis??
    Aren’t Jehadi trying to propogate Islam and they expect everyone to follow it?? You do the same thing but with language as your cribbing point………

    Comment by Arjun Bharadwaj | October 12, 2007 | Reply

  23. Please, don’t ask me to write this in Kannada..Because non-Kannnadigas should also read this.
    Language spreads with people. And Hindi speakers are pouring in to Bengaluru to mint money. It is a win-win situation for economy, but definitely not for the culture.Northies who always looked out for places to invade (that’s in their blood) now preaching us Kannadigas to be more secular? I see no difference between British and these North Indians. While I agree that we need a common language and Hindi suits the bill(Not by merit, just by numbers), the attitude of the Hindi speakers evokes only disgust. Unfortunately, it has been a fashion in Kannadigas, to submit to other culture, language. Ask any damned soul his mobile number, he starts ‘nine eight nine zero….’ I think someday speaking in Kannada will be shown in newsreel before the movie..

    Comment by Harsha | November 2, 2007 | Reply

  24. hi everybody….

    well i dont understand why everybody is making hue n cry about langauge. Language is only a medium of making your thought n ideas known to others n vice versa.

    Languages were developed in order to make communication faster. Earlier peoples used signs for the same. Had they knew that years later we will be fighting for it, m sure they would have come up with just one.

    We Indian should feel lucky enough to be born in a country where so many languages are spoken.

    I just feel great coz I know 5 Indian Languages (Kannada is one among them, though I m not a kannadiga n do not stay in Karnataka either), n still trying to learn few more.

    @ Harsha……
    my dear frnd its your misconception that North Indians invaded others….rather its other way round. They were being invaded from time to time…by Muhamad Gazni, Alexander,Mughals n last bt not least British.

    ya we do setteled in other states for doing business…but eventually worked towards the progress of those states. Rajasthan is still counted among poor states, though most of the industrialist belong to Rajasthan.

    So just keep it in mind that more you learn other languages…… more you will be able to spread your culture.

    Comment by niranjan | March 13, 2008 | Reply

  25. I agree with most of the discussions and also agree that every Indian is free to live where he wants to live. People migrate to Bangalore, are working to their own benefit and also improving the nation’s economy. There is no point in talking shit about Languages.

    These kind of racial violence occurs because of the careless comments made on the language ex. a comment made by MR. Hell, he’s a fucking numb nuts, a fungus faced idiot.
    To Hell,
    Mate, Kannada is an Ancient language. Its been spoken by many people. I also agree that there are many class of people who speak that language, may be some people are rude(exactly like u).

    As u told us earlier even you are a Kannadiga and so is your dad nd mom. Jus because they speak kannada u cannot classify ur dad as a bloody rowdy nd ur mom as a Bitch.

    This language Kannada and the people who speak kannada deserve respect. If u pay enough respect to them the balance will be maintained.

    I appreciate that u still respect our National Language.

    I was so much offended after lookin at ur response. Being a patriot of my nation and my language i made some comment on this. SORRY, if i ws rude 😉

    Comment by Kiran | March 13, 2008 | Reply

  26. I do not have a problem if people speak in other languages, but off late I have witnessed some of my friends who have come from other parts of the country object to use speaking in Kannada in our cities.

    Actually another episode was that I lived in N.India – Gurgaon for about 2 years. The North Indians with whom I shared my house were educated engineers but absolutely ignorant of the rich Indian culture – they would always call me a madrasi, they knew I was from Bangalore etc. Even after warning them, they just did not get it, at the end they settled at “kannad”. I was slowly trying to get them to understand that it is “Kannada”. But the environment was hostile. With such being the state of affairs, anyone who objects to kannadiga’s speaking in kannada (their mother tongue) it is natural to feel a bit touchy about it.

    I think many still have the wrong notion that “Hindi is the national language” Guess what “Hindi” is no more important than Kannada or any of the recognized national languages..

    If anybody wants to see the way kannada is spoken you must listen to kannada speeches or even just watch some movies of Dr. Rajkumar. You will see what a versatile language Kannada is, it is smooth, polished and extremely beautiful. Hindi is also nice, but it was only a dialect before Independence and has most of Urdu. It can in noway compare to the richness of any of the dravidian languages.

    Also just because I said Hindi is not as good, does not mean that I am not patriotic towards India. If anyone comes to such a conclusion, he is a darned fool, let me say. Hindi is maybe about 100-150 years old and was a language that was forced to centerstage (from a dialect) and is at best a mixture of urdu and sanskrit – I know I have read wikipedia articles that say Hindi was some 1000’s of years – the same wikipedia articles which you and I can edit and say whatever we want – big deal.

    All I am saying is that your language may be great, but you have no right to stop others from using their language and no right to speak badly or even incorrectly (in a demeaning way) about it – least of all Kannada.

    Comment by anoop | December 15, 2009 | Reply

  27. The first Kannada scriptures and proof of it being a language have been discovered to be from 400 A.D.

    What can be said of Hindi – dont show me devanagari – that belongs to Sanskrit. So Hindi does not even have a script to call its own….. that to me is a true dialect.

    Be a roman when you come to Rome – so learn Kannada at least when you come to Karnataka and do not bad mouth it / the city / state / or its people.

    Comment by anoop | December 15, 2009 | Reply

  28. I think everyone in India suffers from a persecution complex. We always think someone is out to exploit us – that is a sign of inferiority complex more than anything. If you think Kannada is important, why wait for everyone to do things to promote it? Gp ahead and do what you can to promote it. Problem with India is we always expect someone else to do something that we desire. Why bring the government into it. If everyone acted on their beliefs, it will bring more substance to their beliefs.

    Comment by spinoza | May 22, 2010 | Reply

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